PC recommendations

Post here to ask any questions about hardware suitability, configuration in ZoneMinder, or experiences. If you just want to know if something works with ZoneMinder or not, please check the Hardware Compatibility sections in the forum, and the Wiki first. Also search this topic as well.
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tater1337
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:22 am

PC recommendations

Post by tater1337 »

we have some cameras, we have a POE switch, and we an underpowered PC that we need to spec out a replacement for

I see Hardware and feasibilty check (large project)
viewtopic.php?t=32326

that uses a 5950 for 70 cameras, we dont need that much power

12 have a 12 POE switch, some 1MP and 5MP cameras, using a 2gen I3 dual core and, it works, but it feels slow (well yeah, 2nd gen intel)

currently 1/2 dozen cameras, but will probably add more

suggestions? I'd like to see some options and what determines the ranges of the options, prefer AM4 PCs unless we can fins a cheap server option
dougmccrary
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Location: San Diego

Re: PC recommendations

Post by dougmccrary »

currently 1/2 dozen cameras, but will probably add more
What are they doing?
I have 21 cams, mostly mocord no analysis on z400 workstation. z400's are cheap, especially if you don't need OS/boot drive.
I have a second z400, same cameras, with analysis, on 1.37.51.
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burger
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Re: PC recommendations

Post by burger »

I run Dell Poweredge rack servers, the R700 series. There are a couple gens you can go for depending on budget. The R720 is like $250+ for used w/ 24 cores, and I run that with around 30 cameras, doing ZMES on some of them. Record on all of them. Get newer gen if the budget affords it. Ebay is flooded with these. Dell keeps releasing new servers, but the old ones are still viable, and price is low. Pay attention to form factor, as there are 3.5 or 2.5 server drive options. Obtaining the trays can be a hassle. There are poorly made trays that almost but don't quite work. It's a headache.

For smaller installs, I'd run a Dell Precision Tower (e.g. Dell Precision Tower 5810) which you can get these for like $150+ used. These are going to be a lot more limited. You get about 8 cores here, so you won't be running 30 cameras in modect. But for a small camera install (say 5-10 cameras) that should be enough to run ZMES on a couple cameras. Obviously you won't be able to put many HDDs in this.

It's been discussed here before, but you have to pay attention to cores. And you will want to use H264 passthrough whenever possible, lower analysis FPS to 2, set capture resolution lower than the actual resolution, use ZMES. There are some tricks.
fastest way to test streams:
ffmpeg -i rtsp://<user>:<pass>@<ipaddress>:554/path ./output.mp4 (if terminal only)
ffplay rtsp://<user>:<pass>@<ipaddress>:554/path (gui)
find paths on ispydb or in zm hcl

If you are new to security software, read:
https://wiki.zoneminder.com/Dummies_Guide
tater1337
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:22 am

Re: PC recommendations

Post by tater1337 »

dougmccrary wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 1:15 am
currently 1/2 dozen cameras, but will probably add more
What are they doing?
security for a makerspace. after thinking about it we are going to want 12 cameras plus room for expansion
we currently have a tonton NVR with 6 cameras that keeps failing, and we also have some extra cameras that are just used for posting stills to a website every 30 seconds or so

the z400 you refer to, that is just a single CPU quad core
wouldn't a PC with a Intel Core i7-3770 do better than that?

I am not knowledgeable as to WHY server machines are better than PC machines for such things
dougmccrary
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Location: San Diego

Re: PC recommendations

Post by dougmccrary »

the z400 you refer to, that is just a single CPU quad core
wouldn't a PC with a Intel Core i7-3770 do better than that?

I am not knowledgeable as to WHY server machines are better than PC machines for such things
The more cores the better. There are quad, hex (not - and oct) processors that fit the z400 2 threads per core, same a i7. Mine are hex.
The i7 doesn't support parity memory, the W processors/boards do.
I got mine for about $100 each cuz I'm congenitally cheap.
If you have one of those, it should be fine for a starter, at least. You probably want an ssd for the database and OS, HDDs for video work fine.

Servers are better because they're better. Motherboard design and components, power supply, etc.
And largely because of the growth of the internet, used servers and even new HDDs are cheap.
tater1337
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Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:22 am

Re: PC recommendations

Post by tater1337 »

dougmccrary wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 5:06 am
the z400 you refer to, that is just a single CPU quad core
wouldn't a PC with a Intel Core i7-3770 do better than that?

I am not knowledgeable as to WHY server machines are better than PC machines for such things
The more cores the better. There are quad, hex (not - and oct) processors that fit the z400 2 threads per core, same a i7. Mine are hex.
if the CPU and cores are important, why not list them when someone is trying to make a buying decision?

all you said was z400, no mention of number of cores or CPU used
Servers are better because they're better.
I want a better answer than this

explain it to me like I have to explain it to a president of a maker space which thinks he is tech savvy, but has not clue and wants to use wyze cameras instead of a zoneminder setup
dougmccrary
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Location: San Diego

Re: PC recommendations

Post by dougmccrary »

I suggest you re-read burger's post, and I believe there's info in the wiki.
mikb
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Re: PC recommendations (Wyze Warning!)

Post by mikb »

tater1337 wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 3:41 pm explain it to me like I have to explain it to a president of a maker space which thinks he is tech savvy, but has not clue and wants to use wyze cameras instead of a zoneminder setup
Well, for a start, Zoneminder and your own choice of IP cameras will never bite you like a WYZE cloud one will.

Not so Wyze to have these cloud cameras ... original story here :-

https://www.reddit.com/r/wyzecam/comme ... y_someone/

12 minute reaction video, Louis Rossman, has been banging on about this stuff for some time, people should take note!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkZl7FBipXA
tater1337
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:22 am

Re: PC recommendations (Wyze Warning!)

Post by tater1337 »

mikb wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 6:15 pm
tater1337 wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 3:41 pm explain it to me like I have to explain it to a president of a maker space which thinks he is tech savvy, but has not clue and wants to use wyze cameras instead of a zoneminder setup
Well, for a start, Zoneminder and your own choice of IP cameras will never bite you like a WYZE cloud one will.

Not so Wyze to have these cloud cameras ... original story here :-

https://www.reddit.com/r/wyzecam/comme ... y_someone/

12 minute reaction video, Louis Rossman, has been banging on about this stuff for some time, people should take note!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkZl7FBipXA
currently the president is pushing to use the wyze cameras without the cloud, storing all the footage on the SD card, but I have a different post for discussing this

viewtopic.php?t=33091
tater1337
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:22 am

Re: PC recommendations

Post by tater1337 »

dougmccrary wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 10:40 pm I suggest you re-read burger's post, and I believe there's info in the wiki.
I'd love to see where

wiki computer recommendations
For 1-4 cameras, you can use a core2duo or better CPU.
10 cameras, you should have low end server CPUs (i.e. avoid i3,i5 etc)(Xeon is an intel server CPU. AMD has a variety of server CPUs that work well).
10-50 cameras you want a powerful server CPU, but still don't need to break the bank. Old server hardware can be got for <$1000, even $600 if you are lucky.
Above that you might just want to pay the developer's for advice to get them to fine tune a system. But you can also give a try at it yourself if you wish.
Keep in mind that depending on how you configure ZM can make or break your systems. Trying to run 4 4K cameras with mocord on a core 2 duo will fail, but it might handle 4 1080p streams with record on the hi res stream and modect on the low res stream. These kinds of settings are variable. When in doubt browse the forums and wiki.
and from the dummies guide
How Powerful of a Computer to Use
High-end server hardware will perform better than desktop, or low end server hardware. I have seen this firsthand between two servers: KFSN4-DRE and the KGPE-D16. The latter runs ZM with 25+ cameras, not breaking a sweat. The former reaches a limit at about 10. Another limitation is HDD size.
one question others have asked me is why a 12-14 year old server better than a 10 year old i7 CPU system

or do I have the general specs wrong?

R720 2012 Intel Xeon E5-2609 v2 @ 2.50GHz quad core 3,343 benchmark
z400 2010 Intel Xeon W3570 @ 3.20GHz quad core 3,185 benchmark

newegg search refurbished computers max price $250
Dell Precision T1700 Tower Workstation 2014 Intel Core i7-4790 @ 3.60GHz quad core 7,263 benchmark

https://www.newegg.com/p/1VK-0001-6CUV9 ... 9G5JB68855
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iconnor
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Re: PC recommendations

Post by iconnor »

Honestly I wouldn't go more than 4 years old, unless you really have no budget. At some point the electricity cost negates the initial savings.
mikb
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Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:34 pm

Re: PC recommendations (Wyze Warning!)

Post by mikb »

tater1337 wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2024 4:04 am currently the president is pushing to use the wyze cameras without the cloud, storing all the footage on the SD card,
Thank heavens for small mercies ;) ... storing on the SD card does at least keep the data under your control. Unless someone steals the camera. Nothing wrong with network connected cameras (feeding e.g. to ZoneMinder or other LOCAL server/storage in a secure location). But the whole "push to cloud" thing is where big trouble lies, too dependent on other people's security/honesty/competence.
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