KVM Fedora 9

Support and queries relating to third party Live CDs and DVD, VM images and other packaged distributions
Post Reply
nivlek
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:26 am
Location: Germany

KVM Fedora 9

Post by nivlek »

Hello LiveCD Users,

Having spent many hours getting ZM up and running - a steep learning curve - I'm very cautious about changing the running system.

I have found KVM (Kernel Virtual Machine ?) delivered with Fedora to be reasonably easy to setup and use. In a short space of time I had the following running. Host Fedora 9 (64 Bit), Virtual Machines, Test Fedora 9 (64 Bit), Windows XP (32 Bit), Vista Business (32 Bit), Open Suse 11 (64 Bit). KVM even sorted out the networking. The only difficulty I came across was a "missing console" when booting XP which was fixed by changing a VM parameter.

I only use Network Cameras, so no special hardware defintions that might give KVM a headache.

I can't think of any reasons why a Fedora based VM with ZM should not work.

That is unless anyone knows otherwise :lol:

So my question is can I use/adapt LiveCD to run in a Fedora VM ?

nivlek
Chuck D
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:30 am

Post by Chuck D »

Sure it will.. Throw it in there and fire it up..

I don't quite understand why you would go to all the Fedora trouble though, when there are good VM Operating Systems all over the place that are plug and play... I know they work in VMware and proxmox..

I also have a pre-built VPS template with zoneminder 1.24.0 and already host it on remote VPS servers that I have and am getting ready to go live with it.. Zoneminder is a real resource hog in all aspects.. Ram, CPU, HDD, Bandwidth, and of course whatever custom hardware you put in for capture cards and such..

For people like you who run all network cameras and nothing connected directly to the host machine, a VPS is a good way to go.. Hosting these servers in a reliable, commercial way is pretty sophisticated business.. There is definitely more to it than meets the eye, as you can tell by just trying to install the damn thing in the first place..

The real difficulty I see in this forum is that people are not on the same page.. Everybody is running some off the wall linux distro and trying to build this from scratch, which I can tell is not going very well..

If everybody here were running the same build of zoneminder, installed from the same exact DVD and linux distro, and everybody had a clone machine to the next person here, this thing would take off the grow wings..

But with everybody struggling to just get this installed in the first place, and then if you do get it installed and running, you are on your own because now you have created your own beast and nobody else will know what is going on with your system to help you..

These are my observations while reading this forum over that past several weeks.. This is obviously a kick ass piece of programming, but it doesn't seem to be getting traction because of the reasons I point out above. There is no distribution system, nor is there a standard system to run it on.. Those things are even more important than the software itself, as you can see..

All of the tools are here, and I am thinking that people should just pay a small amount, about the value of one camera, to get this installed and get on the same page and move forward in large numbers..

I have all the tools for that sitting right here ready to go whenever it seems that people will get the drift of that..

Fire away if there's anything I can help you with along the way..

Chuck D
User avatar
cordel
Posts: 5210
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2004 4:47 pm
Location: /USA/Washington/Seattle

Post by cordel »

I do all my testing in a XEN VM with and without binding hardware, I have seen no problems so far. I have not really loaded a bunch of cameras on it though, just 4 to 6 as the server has several other intended functions. I still use a dedicated machine for my ZM around the house.
nivlek
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:26 am
Location: Germany

Post by nivlek »

Chuck D wrote:Sure it will.. Throw it in there and fire it up..

Chuck D
Chuck I am still on a steep learning curve! Let me try to understand what you are telling me here.

I order/obtain a LiveCD and run it in a VM. Just add my cameras and ........ I have a ZM System ?

(I'll come back to the rest of you mail piece by piece).

nivlek
nivlek
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:26 am
Location: Germany

Post by nivlek »

cordel wrote:I do all my testing in a XEN VM with and without binding hardware, I have seen no problems so far. I have not really loaded a bunch of cameras on it though, just 4 to 6 as the server has several other intended functions. I still use a dedicated machine for my ZM around the house.
Hi Cordel,

I started with half an Operating System - Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 Client (Office) that was a waste of time and I had to add many packages too. Most of the extra packages appeared in RPM format for Fedora so I started again and went the Fedora route.

I was thinking along similar lines to your setup but with KVM instead.

I'm looking at what Chuck is telling me too somewhere between the two is what I think I need.

nivlek
User avatar
cordel
Posts: 5210
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2004 4:47 pm
Location: /USA/Washington/Seattle

Post by cordel »

There are several LiveCD's available, Ross's CD's are very strait forward and have all the extra kernel modules for web cams precompiled and installed right out of the box. and we will have 1.24.x ready when it's in solid shape but not before. Several to chose from just from him alone are Mandriva, PCLOS, and Arch. There is also the Live CD created by Curtis Hall of Bluecherry based on Ubuntu so you have lots of options really. There are a few more that will be out fairly soon as well.

I actually like Redhat5 and CentOS, it's a solid foundation that allows me to custom tailor packages with out a whole bunch of bloat. I can create a full featured ZM system with a footprint no larger than 500MB, even smaller if I rebuild the Desktop for it and removed all the bloat.
nivlek
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:26 am
Location: Germany

Post by nivlek »

Cordel

I'm glad I started this thread. I am just begining to understand some of the issues.

As Chuck D points out there are any number distributions each to their own. I don't have enough experience yet to list the Pros and Cons.

O.k. you like RHEL. I had a new PC delivered with RHEL Workstation Client (Office) and I tried very hard for weeks to get ZM with a PTZ (controls) working. ZM apparently requires PHP Sockets, that the Workstation Client does not have, then I was on a trip to hell and back compiling PHP pulling in RPM packages without success, never again.
The other thing that does not work, at least with the level of RHEL WS Client had, is VMWare. The VM hosting RHEL WS Client hangs every time in Anaconda. VMWare support could not help me then with a solution.
User avatar
cordel
Posts: 5210
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2004 4:47 pm
Location: /USA/Washington/Seattle

Post by cordel »

I don't use client, I use server. With a base headless install with broadband via ssh I can have a system up and running in ten minutes. Although I do alot more than just install ZM normally so a full server setup with raid1 mirror for the OS and raid5 for events and database takes between two to three hours tough I making some additional packages that should cut that in half. I have never had a problem with php or sockets on php in CentOS But I have now been doing this and making packages for ~6 years as well as Ross. Same goes for Fedora as it was what I really learned on 7 years back .

The last 4 years I've been running xen, shame that xen is being dropped by Redhat because it will not be included in the Kernel so I am hoping that KVM will be as good as running the Xen micro kernel, but alas I have already pretty much committed everything to the xen platform so kvm will need to likely really exceed xen performance and features before it's worth me putting that much work into it. Redhat really missed the boat on that one.

As far as the different ZM distro's goes, it really comes down to how well it is supported and how stable it is. The latest and greatest is fun until you run into a bug that brings everything to a halt, then you either have to pull your hair out going through the forum if you are not sure what is wrong, or pay to have someone support you to get it fixed right quick. Then there is the issue of updatability and faith that your not going to lose your data doing so, and how well it is maintained and those doing so are going to always be accessible when things go wrong.

As far as the Linux distros goes, my laptop or I guess I should say netbook, my daily driver has Ubuntu. Now Ubuntu is awesome, it's easy to setup and have all the bells and whistles. Why do I not create or use packages for Ubuntu? Because of ffmpeg and we need to have the latest SVN release and also Peter already does an awesome job of it him self. Ubuntu has ffmpeg already packaged but like most all distros they are usually at least a few months behind, then add to that the other packages you might desire to install that depend on that version of ffmpeg that the distro has packaged and could end up with a conflict as it's available in their repo. Since Red Hat is in the states, they don't want to deal with licensing issues or certain patent holders, so they do not package it as someone might want some money for every installation out there. So when you get RH, the predefined repo has no ffmpeg. That's great for us because we don't have to be too concerned about running into dependency conflicts, the down side is I to live in the states :evil: but from a support stand point, I have less to worry about someone dong something that creates that conflict as it takes a bit more effort. That's why I stick with RH at least for now.
nivlek
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:26 am
Location: Germany

Post by nivlek »

cordel wrote:I don't use client, I use server. With a base headless install with broadband via ssh I can have a system up and running in ten minutes.
:oops: what is base headless install? I searched the net and the only entry I found was this post!
User avatar
cordel
Posts: 5210
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2004 4:47 pm
Location: /USA/Washington/Seattle

Post by cordel »

I mean a base install as in minimal that you can get away with installing for a distro.
Headless means no desktop or x11.
nivlek
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:26 am
Location: Germany

Post by nivlek »

Chuck D wrote: I don't quite understand why you would go to all the Fedora trouble though, when there are good VM Operating Systems all over the place that are plug and play... I know they work in VMware and proxmox..

Fire away if there's anything I can help you with along the way..

Chuck D
Maybe I do not know better. :oops:

Can I test something in a VM (KVM) to better understand ? :?:
nivlek
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:26 am
Location: Germany

Post by nivlek »

Chuck,

you had a lot to say in your earlier Mail and I'm really quite interested in more detail. You seem to have disappeard, I hope you can find time for more.
Chuck D wrote:I also have a pre-built VPS template with zoneminder 1.24.0 and already host it on remote VPS servers that I have and am getting ready to go live with it.. Zoneminder is a real resource hog in all aspects.. Ram, CPU, HDD, Bandwidth, and of course whatever custom hardware you put in for capture cards and such..

For people like you who run all network cameras and nothing connected directly to the host machine, a VPS is a good way to go.. Hosting these servers in a reliable, commercial way is pretty sophisticated business.. There is definitely more to it than meets the eye, as you can tell by just trying to install the damn thing in the first place..
Chuck D
I obtained a LiveCD as was suggested earlier. After one or two hicups I now have a LiveCD System "running" (KVM), but not customised to my environment. I have a strange problem using a German Keyboard with the LiveCD System I can't seem to find the "=" character. I'd like to Boot the Linux with a keyb parameter but guess what I need a "=" and that is just the beginning!

If VPS is the way to go my ISP has a 3 month free trial offer on.
How do I size a VPS ? If ZM is not set up properly I'm going to have real problems with it gobbling up resources, and after the 3 months are up it might be real painful. Tell me more about your VPS template and how to clone new releases quick and easy. Without speed and accuracy building "packaged systems" this is not going to compete.

Nivlek
newvisionantenna
Posts: 381
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:49 pm
Location: Germany

Post by newvisionantenna »

I'm sure Chuck will step in but he's pretty busy at the moment with his project and deploying several new VPS hosted servers.

I've been working along with Chuck on offering Hosted Zoneminder installs. The KVM approach will work but running containers is the way to go. It is possible to limit computer resources and or bandwidth on each container. This would help with your concerns about gobbling up resources. The benifit with our hosted service as opposed to your ISP is probably bandwidth and complete root access to install and remove anything. I would be curious to see what they are going to offer you in terms of overall control, usage, and pricing. We can offer you one of our open slots at the moment to see if a VPS solution will meet your needs.

If anyone is interested in more information pm myself or Chuck. There is a live hosted VPS server at this address,

http://67.210.200.98/
Last edited by newvisionantenna on Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
nivlek
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:26 am
Location: Germany

Post by nivlek »

Cordel,

o.k. it was just the terminology I had not heard before.
cordel wrote:I mean a base install as in minimal that you can get away with installing for a distro.
Headless means no desktop or x11.
I've now got a (Ross) LiveCD System "running" under the KVM Manager. Your claim of 10 Minutes to get a custom system up and running sounds impressive but you must have quite 'complex' processes(and skills) to do all the work? I just have networked cameras (Advantage) and Fedora (Disadvantage? but also RH related). I'd be happy to target 30 Minutes to build my own customised system if it works. Can it be done!

Nivlek
newvisionantenna
Posts: 381
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:49 pm
Location: Germany

Post by newvisionantenna »

Just to clarify things, the hosting of Zoneminder is a joint project including myself and Chuck D at the moment. I'm sorry if I made it appear I'm offering another service besides his, the service is one in the same. All servers are hosted in the United States. Details regarding bandwidth, memory, and cpu specs can be brought up with Chuck at the moment.

If your looking at my site your in the wrong place. You need to be looking at pro-mesh.net and get with myself or Chuck if your interested in a hosted Zoneminder solution.
Post Reply