ZMLiveCD 2008

Support and queries relating to third party Live CDs and DVD, VM images and other packaged distributions
Secutor
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Potential collaboration with MythZoneMinder on LiveCD 2008

Post by Secutor » Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:27 pm

Hi,
I don't mean to be presumptuous or rude but you might consider, if you have not already, collaborating with the folk over at MythZoneMinder as you create the next Live CD.
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/MythZoneMinder .
As I understand it, an advantage to using ZoneMinder with Myth is that you can watch the video directly, without having to use a Web browser, and thereby get a much smoother video presentation. The MythTV and KnoppMyth folk also have a lot of experience with Live CDs. Thanks for your work on Zoneminder. :D

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cordel
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Post by cordel » Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:40 am

How freaken RUDE :evil:
:lol: JK
Actualy not a half bad idea. Except I don't think they have any update path except to download and install a new CD but I only know what I have read and have not used it personaly. With our current direction, we can put out packages that are updateable so the question becomes, it there a reasonable update path for their CD?
If it was done, it would need the option to install serverside with Myth, or standalone for heavy load systems.

technicavolous
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Post by technicavolous » Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:01 am

I've been looking at MythTV for a while now but have not tried to install it. Altho I was not able to follow your link, I found it here
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/MythZoneMinder

I try to encourage my people to use ZM as what it is - a SERVER. It handles everything better if X is never installed on the system in the first place and all monitoring be done on a remote PC. I've found I can load up a server with half a dozen IP clients and not be as loaded as the same server displaying a single montage on its own display.

But, most want a standalone installation so we go through the issues of horsepower for the x server and a fairly rhobust display adapter because almost inevetibly they want to have a duplicate display on a TV somewhere.

So, with the Live version I think we should have those options available. I have no clue how MythZM works or adds to system load, but it looks good. It should be a candidate for the application list at least.
Tracy Markham

If you take the path of least resistance, you're probably on a downhill journey ...

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cordel
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Post by cordel » Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:29 am

After some thought, ZM LiveCD should be on it's own. We have enough difficulty supporting all the people who came here with problems in the packages for various distros, to add a combo CD that has all the Myth toys would be a nightmare.

If something has to be done to get it to function with Myth Backend, then we can always make that happen, but the less load and less options the better. ZM can be a heavy load all on it's own depending on so many factors we already know. It's a server app and we should treat it like one. Anyone that wants something custom can do that on their own, I certainly do. I think we should stay with PCLOS Keep it light, With one purpose in mind.... ZoneMinder.

Ross has plenty of experience dealing with the Mandriva based stuff and should certainly have lead over the effort and I can help any where he wants me too. Sounds like a good excuse to meet for a coffee any way ;)

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rdmelin
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Post by rdmelin » Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:51 pm

Hey gang,
Thanks to all who have posted here in this thread. Lets keep this going. Just want to mention that I have been chipping away at this as I have time. I have a rough version of a pclos based CD running zm 1.23.2.

The pclos team is aware of problems with some sata hardware with the 2008 minime CD. They expect to have a fix shortly. Any who will download the CD and test on their hardware and report bugs to the pclos team will be making a contibution to the success of this project.

A new look for the CD would be nice. Something that is simple and conveys a professional image is what I think we want. Any volunteers?

Tracy (technicavolous) I vote for you to lead the documentation effort. What I believe is the greatest need is help for the end user of the system. The pclos installation help is pretty good. (And looks suspiciously similar to the installation help from my recent ZMliveCD :) )

What we really need is a place to work tgether.
curtishall has genorously given me access to the bluecherry zoneminder livecd project site. However after reading sourceforges policies regarding limits on how much can be served from the website I'm not sure it's a good fit for this project. I'm considering obtaining a hosted site for this and some other ventures I'm looking at.

Corey, please call if you are going to be in the neighborhood. I'm pretty sure it's my turn to buy coffee :)

Well there's a few ramblings to keep this thread alive.

Best regards to all,

Ross Melin

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cordel
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Post by cordel » Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:30 pm

Ross, I still have a hosted domain that is doing nothing for ctu-web.com. I realize that the url might not be suitable, but the space and bandwidth certainly is, let me know.

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rdmelin
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Post by rdmelin » Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:43 am

OK Corey, I PM'd you about this.

technicavolous
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Post by technicavolous » Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:21 pm

rdmelin wrote: Tracy (technicavolous) I vote for you to lead the documentation effort. What I believe is the greatest need is help for the end user of the system. The pclos installation help is pretty good. (And looks suspiciously similar to the installation help from my recent ZMliveCD :) )
Thank you! I tried to keep it simple ;)

I'm in! I may miss a day here n there, got a lot going on with a major change in life here but this is great.

I got an email quite some time ago from one of the PCLOS packagers (this email gets spammed terribly ...) that wants to add your work to the distro - good job! I copied it to you via PM, it may be old news to you now.

Looking forward to the new site - I'll wait on starting the wiki for there unless you want it here as well.

Cool ...
Tracy Markham

If you take the path of least resistance, you're probably on a downhill journey ...

technicavolous
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Watch for leaks?

Post by technicavolous » Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:25 am

Heads up to anyone who has followed my wiki on MDV 2008 and 1.23.1 - I'm experiencing lockups with a few systems after being in the field a few weeks. The 2007 based LiveCD (Again, the most stable ever!) are all running strong. I suspect there is a versioning issue, but I haven't dug in, all I did was revert until I can reproduce things here in my lab.

SOOO ... I imagine the VERSION of software packages such as Apache, MySQL, PHP etc, will be important to consider as we bring this to fruition.

I'll be digging into the other forums for data, I'll reference any that help in my quest.
Tracy Markham

If you take the path of least resistance, you're probably on a downhill journey ...

gola10
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Post by gola10 » Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:31 pm

I am not a expert but a few week ago was able to install zm 1.23.1 from RPM to Pclos. I downloaded the 2008 iso but sincerely i do not remmenber (is a matter of age) if i used the 2008 minicd or a older version of pclos. Is there a way to now?
It has been installed in 4 different computers and with different hardware and one of them with a sata drive. I can tell that they are very stable.
Recently i ugrade 2 of those installations to 1.23.2 from RPM. The only thing i notice on one of them is that when i try to see all events of unde DAY "today" i get the ones of yesterday. This computer is far away from here and i did the upgrade via Internet. Maybe i forgot something.

I am happy to know that there is going to be finally ZM under Pclos. Their Remaster feature is great.

Update: Just check and it is Pclos 2008.

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Post by jameswilson » Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:07 pm

I think it would be a good idea to allow remote install of zm4ms too from the live cd, it will install from a web page. Ill work on that

When you say new look?
I think your cop penguin logo is ideal.
Do we have a graphic designer in the house?

I think the way the old live cd boots is superb, but ideally id like to make it a mouse only i/f
Virtual keyboards etc.

Should we have a list of work required on the wiki so poeple can pick parts o do?

James
James Wilson

Disclaimer: The above is pure theory and may work on a good day with the wind behind it. etc etc.
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robi
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Post by robi » Sat Mar 15, 2008 7:09 pm

Alright!

I installed the alpha version of the pclos on a virtual machine. I like it, it worked stright away. It's very familiar, looks much like the mdv used to be, and that was a good one. A few observations:

- after startup, some icons appear behind others. A bit confusing

- setup to the local machine didn't work for me, but ZM was running fine from the CD

- in my opinion there should be a text-mode-only option before bootup. There are many cases, especially in certain server environments, where vga graphics cards don't exist, or only minimal vga resolutions are available. I am not aware how reliable is the auto-detection of these at startup, but i'd start at boot in text mode with a 3-second delay and a message: press a key to continue in text-mode, or wait 3 seconds to load the graphical interface. If the user chooses text mode, the same steps would be available: login at command prompt, have the info displayed etc. Graphical mode is great the way it is.

- it's still my own wish, to have MRTG running immediately, monitoring cpu, network and memory usage over time. One usually wants to know how is performance affected with different setups (weekly several new topics are started with this question every time), so having this running on the LiveCD would save a lot of time and give satisfactory answers to most, straight out of the box.

Congrats and keep up the good work!
v1.25.0 + Ubuntu Linux 12.04 Server

jameswilson
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Post by jameswilson » Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:17 pm

IMO adding that shouldnt be on the stock live cd.
Also i dont think a text mode live cd would be of any use at all, cos all of the tools on this are graphic based. Too big a job IMO

it needs to be light, quick, basic, reliable and self healing.
Anything else can be added afterwards if needed
James Wilson

Disclaimer: The above is pure theory and may work on a good day with the wind behind it. etc etc.
http://www.securitywarehouse.co.uk

technicavolous
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Post by technicavolous » Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:30 am

jameswilson wrote:Should we have a list of work required on the wiki so poeple can pick parts to do?
I think so! I've started a wiki for that purpose. See
http://www.zoneminder.com/wiki/index.ph ... quirements

Someone please edit this to make sense - I stuck a few things up there but by no means is this a good list; all I did was start it and set a format. (Ross, I volunteered you for a couple ;) ) If we follow that for our additions it will be very useful and nicely presented.
gola10 wrote:I can tell that they are very stable.
See above - you really don't know how a ZM installation is working until it's been under load a while. There are several landmark activities that tell a lot about 'stability.' When it makes its first event dump, when the disk fills and it starts to purge, when it gets to 32k events, etc. These issues are all addressed in other forums - but to make a fully stable live cd we have to consider them.

In making our decisions on what packages to include, stability has to be considered. I've been reading some of the forums on the MySQL sites, the Apache sites, and the ffmpeg sites. There are issues with each and every one of them which may or may not affect us. Some of them are biting me in the rear!!

Using the latest version of everything has not been working for me - I find myself frequently using the oldest version that supports the features I need as they have had the most exposure and have received the most work in making them stable. Luckily for me most of my 2008 installs have been upgrades with my 'ginea pig' customers who've agreed to let me use them for test sites.

So, this begs me to ask, what tasks ARE really necessary for making this live cd? Go edit the wiki ;)
Tracy Markham

If you take the path of least resistance, you're probably on a downhill journey ...

technicavolous
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Production Wiki

Post by technicavolous » Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:32 am

OK I've created the skeleton for a Production Wiki here -
http://www.zoneminder.com/wiki/index.ph ... Production

I'll be happy to keep this clean and concise but I'll need you guys to make it accurate. My starting skeleton may not be proper so please feel free to correct it!
Tracy Markham

If you take the path of least resistance, you're probably on a downhill journey ...

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