IP Camera with Infrared capability

A place for discussion of topics that are not specific to ZoneMinder. This could include Linux, Video4Linux, CCTV cameras or any other topic.
noah35
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:12 pm

IP Camera with Infrared capability

Post by noah35 »

Hello all,

I have given myself a DIY project to create a relatively low cost home surveillance system, just to give myself the security wherever I may be. I came across ZoneMinder and thought that this was a great monitoring tool. My problem at the moment is finding the right IP camera and here are my preferences:

- Indoor
- Wireless
- PoE
- Infrared
- CCD lens
- PTZ

I need 4 (5 maximum) that I want to install around the house. Does anyone know of any decent ones that have no problems being added onto ZoneMinder? I should also mention that I don't really have much experience in Linux and scripting so a PnP solution would be ideal. Please any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Kind regards,

Noah
coke
Posts: 518
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:53 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO, USA

Post by coke »

Why PoE and wireless? Tesla's dead, we're not likely to get a power over wifi camera for quite a while. Wired is generally cheaper, and in my experience provides much better frame rates, though it depends at least somewhat on how much wireless pollution is around.
newvisionantenna
Posts: 381
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:49 pm
Location: Germany

Post by newvisionantenna »

ON the contrary, I've already built POE and wireless camera's out of the Uquiquity Routerstation. I've posted a million topics on this but people refuse to try it out and stick with the $2000 high end camera's when you can get the same quailty out of small little devices running mjpg_streamer and cams' like the Orbit AF or Logitech 9000.

I've also got a router for $49 that is an all in one solution. I have the firmware you need and can help you set it up. It will run Motion and can interface with Zoneminder nicely, or I've got others running mjpg_streamer.
coke
Posts: 518
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:53 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO, USA

Post by coke »

Your solution wirelessly transmits the power, so the cameras can just hang out on the wall somewhere without any cables whatsoever going to them? I'm interested in your solutions/setups, haven't had any time lately to add any new cameras, etc., but if you've managed to beam the electricity to the camera, I'm all over it. :)

I was just questioning the value of being PoE and Wireless, since the PoE implies that you have to wire it anyway.
newvisionantenna
Posts: 381
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:49 pm
Location: Germany

Post by newvisionantenna »

Ok, well I can actually say yes I don't need any wires if you run with my Solar powered repeater and webcam unless you count the wire coming from the panel and battery to the router :)

It's all possible and has already been done. People are currently using our main project to setup mobile parks with solar powered mesh hotspots. I see what your saying, alittle harder then average to setup but it's all possible and targets the DIY kinda guy.
noah35
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:12 pm

Post by noah35 »

Thanks for the feedback so far guys.

@coke: good point about the Wireless and PoE working together, that actually just slipped my mind. I guess having both was just a dream of mine.

@newvisionantenna: thanks for the info mate. Just to let you know, I don't really know much about electronics or anything too technical. My background is high level programming in Java and that's as far as technical I go unfortunately. Most of the stuff you mentioned in your post I don't really understand. For instance, what is the Uquiquity Routerstation? What is Motion and mjpeg_streamer used for? What's the difference between using Motion and mjpeg_streamer? Why would I need a router? What's the firmware for? Sorry but I am new to all this.

I guess all this stuff that I need to integrate with ZoneMinder is confusing me a little bit. I really need something like this: http://www.wilife.com/About/Technologies.aspx. I have not opted for this solution because in the end I would like to integrate the surveillance system into LinuxMCE home automation, and I feel that WiLife would not be supported. I also would like the surveillance system to be expansible, to facilitate the addition of more cameras (of any type) at a later date if necessary. I suspect ZoneMinder would be able to support this capability whereas WiLife would not.

Again, I'm not too technical of a person but I do learn quite quickly. I hope to get more feedback from you guys soon. Thanks again for the input so far.
Kind regards,

Noah
newvisionantenna
Posts: 381
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:49 pm
Location: Germany

Post by newvisionantenna »

I know I can be a bit confusing but here is a couple things for you,

This is the routerstation,

http://www.ubnt.com/products/rs.php

This is the ASUS WL500W ( I have mjpg_streamer running perfect on this)

http://usa.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=12

and last but not least the $49 router,

http://www.planex.net/product/router/mzk-w04nu.htm


Ok, Motion is a complete security program in itself than I have had running on all the above routers using "OpenWRT". This of Linux running on a router while still allowing you the easy to setup wireless networking. I can setup the routers in client mode and or repeater mode which will connect back to your home network and allow you to view the stream be generated on the device.

Mjpg_Streamer is another app that can generate really high performance video out of UVC Video4Linux 2 devices. This is the real target I'm after. I've had resolutions greater then 640x480 running on 200mhz processors. You don't need a router for this, you can run mjpg_streamer on a small pc but I"m just trying to make an all in one package.

Take a look at www.pro-mesh.net and you'll also see our wireless mesh network builder that works with the Asus 520gu for example. You could setup a huge Solar Powered network using the Asus and then connect any Wireless Camera and or IP camera or plug in a usb camera on the router, although it's using something very low powered to run the camera unlike the other devices I'm using.

That was a mouthfull, hopefully it help :)
Last edited by newvisionantenna on Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
noah35
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:12 pm

Post by noah35 »

Hi newvisionantenna,

Thanks for your feedback. My main concern is why do you install Motion or mjpg_streamer on the router. I find it difficult to understand.

I really just want to use ZM and get that to recognize my cameras via the wireless network. I mean, if using Motion or mjpg_streamer is a lot easier than ZM then I'm all for it.

Anyway, I had a quick look at some of the links you gave me. I don't really know what those routers (that you referred to me) are for. Seriously, besides routing video to ZM, what else must the router be able to do? I guess this is where I get confused when you talk about installing Motion or mjpg_streamer on the router and hence not even needing ZM anymore. It would just go against my initial goal of trying to accomplish this, which was to use ZM in the first place.

I had a look also at the wifigator stuff, and boy that looks cool! Does it require you to install Motion or mjpg_streamer on the router? Anyway, it looks like just what I need. I still need to do a bit of reading though.

Anyway, just for your information, I drew up my initial intended setup of how I want my security system set up to look like in the end. You can see my rough illustration below. It's really all I wanted to setup, but it seems like it won't be that easy.

Image

Every component in the diagram is what I currently have at home, except for the cameras. MY Linksys ADSL2 is the gateway to the Internet. The Wireless router provides the wireless connectivity around the house. So I intended to use this to connect my currently non-existent IP cameras to the network, so I can easily access them. My understanding of the router is just to send video down the Ethernet right? I don't see them doing any image processing at all. I have a PC there which would have ZoneMinder installed, and thus this would assume the processing responsibility, correct?

Please let me know if you can't see the image or if you don't understand it. Anyway, I'll keep on reading and I hope to get more feedback from you.
Kind regards,

Noah
newvisionantenna
Posts: 381
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:49 pm
Location: Germany

Post by newvisionantenna »

Ok, I'll try my best to explain after having a better understanding of what your trying to do.

The routers I showed you was a project I started where I was trying to make a very low cost wirless camera solution using off the shelf items and just a little work to get it going. You see, Axis or other wireless camera's cost a lot. The routers combined with my firmware builds, mjpg_streamer or motion, and a usb webcam created an effective camera solution for Zoneminder. I thought you were looking for some low cost equipment that's why I brought it up.

Since you have equipment and are trying to spread it around your house for a security network that I can suggest the following. Get low cost Lan camera's and several ASUS 520GU routers. Forget everything I said before about routers and in this config you could use our wireless mesh builder to manage a secure network around your house.

Basically it would go like this,

Your ADSL2 router would output a line to the main ASUS 520gu flashed wtih the AP firmware our mesh builder makes. Your Zoneminder server would be plugged into that 520GU router. Now, around your house inside our outside would be the other ASUS 520gu's with ethernet camera's plugged into the LAN ports on the Router. The mesh builder allows you to create firmware that will make all the ASUS 520gu's talk to each other and get their IP's all from the Main AP and so will all your camera's either Wireless or Wired. In this method every single one of the camera's you attach to the network will all be viewable by the Zoneminder Server and also remotely when setup correct. If you up for it, order the equipment and I'll give you my DVD and link you to the Mesh builder all free of charge. I would like to see someone from this forum up and running with it. I already have several people over at WiFiGator running it but I think that's because they are way more familiar with routers.
noah35
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:12 pm

Post by noah35 »

Some great tips there mate. I'm definitely up for setting this up in my home. This would be sweet if I can get this up and running!

Before I go on, can I just clarify something? You talked about mesh builders. What exactly are they and where can I find that in here: http://www.wifigator.com/zoneminder/ ? Is it a physical thing or some piece of script/software? I don't understand when you say "link you to the Mesh builder". What do you mean by link?

Also, you mentioned that the ethernet cameras should be plugged into the LAN ports on the router. Obviously this can be a wireless plug right if we're talking about wireless cameras? Also, do I need one router per camera? Or can I have several cameras connected to the ASUS routers I place around the house? Sorry if my questions sound a bit dumb.

One last thing. I would really like a few (4 or 5) cameras around the house (1 outside and 4 inside). But I'm not sure exactly where I can find the best bang for buck. I really want the cameras to have at least the following features (in order of priority):

- Wireless
- Infrared
- CCD lens
- PTZ

Can you recommend any? Wireless and infrared is a must. Are there any relatively low cost LAN cameras with those properties?

By the way, that's very nice of you to offer me the DVD for free. I'm definitely keen on getting such an infrastructure going as soon as I can.

Cheers mate and I hope to hear from you again!
Kind regards,

Noah
newvisionantenna
Posts: 381
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:49 pm
Location: Germany

Post by newvisionantenna »

The mesh builder is currently running on a remote server. It's mostly web/php code displayed on a web page with a behind the scenes custom firmware builder for the specified routers. I've not included it in my DVD yet. I will send you a link via PM so you can see exactly what I'm talking about and how it works. I was giving it out to people buying keys at our other site. I've fully tested it myself using Linksys 54GL's, ASUS 520GU's, and also ASUS WL500W's. It's very important you purchase the correct equipment otherwise the firmware may not work. The Linksys and ASUS are farely easy to "flash" with the custom firmware. In fact the Linksys 54GL router can be flashed right from the factory control panel. The ASUS routers require holding down the reset button on boot up and "tftp" over the firmware which is still simple.

So long as you follow the directions on the link and have the correct equipment everything will work. The web page will ask several questions and then prepare two firmware's for you. One you will flash to the main Access point and the other you will flash to as many repeaters as you need. You can plug as many camera's into each router as you desire, they will all get their ip's from the main Access point no matter where you plug them in. You could also connect other wireless camera's to the resulantant WPA encrypted mesh "cloud" and they will work. I would start out small if your only using one Main AP and keep the network simple until you've got it all figured out.

I can't give good recomendations on IP camera's since I've been mostly making homemade one's. I'm sure you could find decent cheap Lan camera's and use the very cheap ASUS 520gu's setup in a mesh network to cut down on running Lan cable. The repeater's will only need power and I'm sure that's easier to get then running LAN cable all around your house.

I don't mind giving the stuff you need. I really want someone from this forum to try it out. I know it will be a hit, it's just getting over that fear of wireless. Not to mention if you take a serperate ASUS 520gu and get the Hotpost service from WiFiGator you can plug it in anywhere on the camera network and offer up a paid Hotspot service if you wanted.
noah35
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:12 pm

Post by noah35 »

I think I'm finally catching on to your concept mate.

1. I drew a diagram of how I think the WPA network of surveillance cameras should look like from a connectivity point of view. Shown below.

Image

I've tried to colour code it so that it's a lot easier to see the components. Basically, I drew it up to confirm with you that I am understanding what you are talking about, and also for my benefit to allow me to learn about the concept at the same time.

All the blue components are the wired and wireless cameras. The red components represent the routers. I've indicated that the Main AP router will be flashed with 'firmware #1' and the repeaters will be flashed with 'firmware #2' to allow communication with the Main AP, I believe.

A PC with ZM server installed is plugged into the Main AP router. The ADSL2 router (which is filled in red and is still the gateway to the Internet) outputs a line to the Main AP router via Ethernet cable. A ZM client PC is connected to this router to allow monitoring of all the cameras.

I've used green to indicate connections between components and how they will communicate. Essentially, the wired cameras are connected to the repeaters via an Ethernet cable ('Eth' in the diagram). And I've also shown that it is possible to connect wireless IP cameras to the network. I've drawn a cloud to represent the resultant WPA encrypted mesh cloud. Is this what makes it possible for wireless cameras to be connected?

Some other questions below if you don't mind. I really want to give this approach a go, so I'm need of some advice about certain issues.

2. How secure will this network be? I won't be providing wifi connectivity at all since that's not what I'm here for. So how secure will this network be from outside threats?

3. I've been looking around for IP cameras for quite a bit now and have decided that I don't mind going for the wired ones now since there will be routers spread out in the house that will facilitate connection to the network via an Ethernet cable. So I really looked for ones that had infrared capability for night vision and came across the ones in the links below. I've listed them in order of preference, but I'm still undecided. Which one do you think I should go for?

- http://www.amazon.com/Internet-Security ... 546&sr=1-2 ~$90
- http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?InvtId ... ign=IP-510 ~$60
- http://www.circuitcentral.com.au/GrandT ... 30271.html ~$135
- http://www.airlink101.com/products/aicn500w.php ~$140

4. Which router would you recommend I buy? The Linksys 54GL or the ASUS 520GU?

I hope you can help me with these questions. I understand what you mean by getting the correct equipment so everything will fall into place. Please give me some of your expert advice on these matters. That would be much appreciated. Then I can go and buy them!
Kind regards,

Noah
newvisionantenna
Posts: 381
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:49 pm
Location: Germany

Post by newvisionantenna »

1. If you don't mind I would like to copy your picture. You have hit the nail on the head and fully understand how the layout would work. I couldn't have explained it better myself, should have drawn it out like you did. The only thing you might have to consider is some port forwards rules between your ADLS router to the WAN port on the Main AP and then maybe another from it to the Zoneminder server, only if you want to see all the info from the outside world but I think you understand that part. I don't have the ADSL router here so my Internet comes right in to the Maini AP and then I run everything from there. It will work perfect like you have it drawn out.

2. The Network will be as secure as WPA which is as strong as the password you select. The only thing it might be hacked by is a dictionary attack which is way you select a good password. Since you won't be trying to host hotspots with this network it will work perfect.

3. I will do some research on those camera's you list. I would like to make sure they will output the proper stream for Zoneminder to connect to. I will get back to you on that.

4. Either router is fine but I would say the ASUS 520GU. It's cheaper and also has the USB port and will allow simple usb camera's to also work with Zoneminder. Don't expect a lot of quality out of the usb camera's but just know the option is there.
Chuck D
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:30 am

Post by Chuck D »

Bingo.... It's good to see that somebody is getting it....

8)
noah35
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:12 pm

Post by noah35 »

Just curious guys, I just had a thought.

Referring to my colour coded diagram I drew in the previous post, I began to think, what if I just used wireless cameras around the house (e.g. the Airlink 101 - AICN500W - http://store.bluecherry.net/product_p/aicn500w.htm), would I still require the repeaters?

Like you said on an earlier post, it's probably easier if I start out small and use just one Main AP. If that's the case, I already have a Linksys WRT54GL wireless router. What's to stop me from buying a few wireless cameras and getting it connected with this wireless router? Would I still need to install the custom mesh builder firmware on it? If so, why's that? Because I would assume the wireless router itself (without the mesh builder custom firmware) would be able to detect any wireless cameras, correct?

Also, I have an existing box (that's currently collecting dust) that I can use to install Ubuntu and hence ZoneMinder on and hook it up to the wireless router. Please let me know if this will work.
Kind regards,

Noah
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